How, in the period that you were still pursuing your ambitions and your path, how did you motivate yourself to keep going? Growing, although you didn't foresee which direction or result it would give.

No, it was a one way forward. We couldn't go back know there was no money. We had to lend some money. I had to sell a collection I had of toys. I had to borrow something. We got my modern diet, I had 4,000 kilos. So all these little steps made that we could survive, but we were on the edge of not surviving. I had to buy out KU too, you know? Yeah. So you can think that is stress, when you cannot think not about cuffs. I think that's something.

A lot of things you block , that don't come into you. Of course we met a lot of people because we went to, a lot of meetings, conferences about plants and plants in perfect space. All this kind of meetings made at our world became bigger. Although the place where we lived was still small. We built gardens.

We built examples. we could do with plants, show boarders, eh, and nobody had done that. You know, nurseries had just nursery beds and act was commercially and, most efficiently set up. I think that we didn't do it. It was for me, one big experiment putting things together. In fact, I felt myself more recognized that I thought was as a tool to express myself , not as just pants, but using them was a way for me to show the beauty I could create, once were just the tool.

Although I love the plant as an individual character, but when you see it as design, you also have to love them for not only the beautiful character, but how they work in a company, with other plants so that they can stimulate the eye guy by being together on a stage where actors are playing and that you need also the characters that don't really wouldn't like to see on their own clowns.

Were not only a sort of. Goal in my life, but also a way in my life to show what I could do. And when you think about in the early eighties about garden design, you know, there was only mean rose, eh, was famous at that time. I came in, I was not really busy with design, but I was busy with how can I bring funds together in a way that they , planting design, which was normally given to the English, to the English, upper class with their staff of gardeners.

I wanted to break out of that sort of traditional way of gardening and through the people we met from wild gardening and from conferences and conversations, we started to think different about plants. We started to think not only about the beauty of flowers, we started with the beauty of transforming, how plants could transform into something else that's also even more beautiful and necessary in the whole system of communities.

In the beginning, I didn't see it as spa communities, but more as spa combinations that worked really well and also could contribute to the eye innovative stadium. And so there was very sort of official, very, very one dimensional vision in a four dimensional field over the years. That gave me to that.

You learned that it was interesting not only for yourself, but also for insects and wildlife. Or wildlife. You didn't want housing like my salmon. But you know, you had things to enjoy, right? But more than just the period of the flower. But that was how it transformed from just one dimensional into also your fishing became more four dimensional.